Should TSA airport patdowns be made illegal? Yes. TSA has gone overboard with these nude body scanners and patdowns of American citizens without just cause.

We have spent over $50 BILLION dollars of taxpayer money on this organization. They have apprehended 0 terrorists. And the last time their failure rate numbers were leaked, they failed to catch contraband being loaded onto a plane 70% of the time. (The 70% failure rate was according to their own testing.)

We need to put a stop to the TSA and start over with how we approach airport security.

Posted By Lisa on May 26, 2011, 2:02 PM

TSA has proven completely incompetent yet continues to jeopardize passenger safety while inflicting countless indignities on a daily basis. Based on TSA statistics a recent article calculated that they grope 1.8 million travelers each month!

The number of people who support the treasonous behavior of TSA is appalling. Their children are being groped by child molesters yet still some defend this criminal conduct of this agency. Of course, DHS often encourages and sometimes pays employees to post pro-DHS/TSA comment to try to convince the public that sexual assault by minimum wage government workers is somehow normal.

Anyone so afraid to fly that that they would consent to having their family strip-searched and their privates groped by a stranger in a public place shouldn’t fly. These people are obviously ill equipped to manage the risk that life entails and should stay home. The rest of us should be subjected to reasonable and respectful security, one that does not involve sexual assault. We value our rights and recognize that there are no guarantees in life; certainly none that the incompetents at TSA can provide.

TSA also employs a disproportionately high number of criminals and allows these people to grope your spouse and children right in front of you. These are also the societal rejects they hire to go through your checked luggage without you present.

There have been 25 screeners arrested in five months for job related crimes, including drug trafficking, theft, raping a 14 year old and two weeks ago for distributing child porn. Three were arrested just this month for theft from baggage, carrying a loaded gun into the airport and stowing away on a flight to the Dominican Republic.

Twenty five criminal acts, twenty security failures, 4,000+ groping complaints and dozens of lawsuits, all in five months, yet TSA hasn't stopped one incident in nine years. Fortunately, some people and lawmakers are beginning to realize that they are being misled by TSA's paranoia and taking action to restrict their abuses.

TSA is violating the Constitution on a daily basis, not improving security whatsoever and yet uninformed sheep and cowards among us endorse this abuse. TSA poses a more imminent threat to American liberties than Al Qaeda.

Posted By Fisher1949 on May 26, 2011, 6:45 PM

TSA has proven completely incompetent yet continues to jeopardize passenger safety while inflicting countless indignities on a daily basis. Based on TSA statistics a recent article calculated that they grope 1.8 million travelers each month!

The number of people who support the treasonous behavior of TSA is appalling. Their children are being groped by child molesters yet still some defend this criminal conduct of this agency. Of course, DHS often encourages and sometimes pays employees to post pro-DHS/TSA comment to try to convince the public that sexual assault by minimum wage government workers is somehow normal.

Anyone so afraid to fly that that they would consent to having their family strip-searched and their privates groped by a stranger in a public place shouldn’t fly. These people are obviously ill equipped to manage the risk that life entails and should stay home. The rest of us should be subjected to reasonable and respectful security, one that does not involve sexual assault. We value our rights and recognize that there are no guarantees in life; certainly none that the incompetents at TSA can provide.

TSA also employs a disproportionately high number of criminals and allows these people to grope your spouse and children right in front of you. These are also the societal rejects they hire to go through your checked luggage without you present.

There have been 25 screeners arrested in five months for job related crimes, including drug trafficking, theft, raping a 14 year old and two weeks ago for distributing child porn. Three were arrested just this month for theft from baggage, carrying a loaded gun into the airport and stowing away on a flight to the Dominican Republic.

Twenty five criminal acts, twenty security failures, 4,000+ groping complaints and dozens of lawsuits, all in five months, yet TSA hasn't stopped one incident in nine years. Fortunately, some people and lawmakers are beginning to realize that they are being misled by TSA's paranoia and taking action to restrict their abuses.

TSA is violating the Constitution on a daily basis, not improving security whatsoever and yet uninformed sheep and cowards among us endorse this abuse. TSA poses a more imminent threat to American liberties than Al Qaeda.

Posted By Fisher1949 on May 26, 2011, 6:46 PM

Why take an oath to uphold the Constitution if you aren't going to take it seriously. We need to go out, buy some of those balls people hang from the pickup trucks and give them to the senators.

Posted By Sure on May 27, 2011, 2:06 AM

TSA pat-downs, scanners, etc., are ineffective, crude and insulting. Interesting how there is such a concern for not offending anyone by profiling yet groping and pat-downs are not considered offensive by TSA. Ask airport employees whether this is really improving security and they will tell you off the record that it is not; it is more a ploy to make travelers "feel good" about security. Well, i have yet to meet someone who feels good about being felt up or scanned so once again we have a prime example of government waste: an agency that accomplishes nothing at great cost...

Posted By travelbug on May 29, 2011, 9:55 PM

I travel through India every year and a pat down is required for every departing flight both domestic and international. It's been that way for years. Same sex, behind a closed curtain, very formal, no small talk exchanged. They are all courteous, efficient and it doesn't feel invasive because it so quick. I'm not sure how I feel about it here in the US. We do live by the belief that we are "innocent until proven guilty" but does our government have the right to try to prove us guilty at the airport? How well screened are the screeners? Clean background checks? For some reason I have no issues with this when travelling in other countries but here it doesn't feel right.

Posted By julie on May 30, 2011, 7:03 PM

I recently took my parents on a flight to their gandson's wedding. Both required wheel chairs although they can walk short distances using a cane. My 87 year old mother did not have a picture ID so these arrogant, abusive thugs sexually assaulted her in full view of all the passengers. They took her cane and told her to stand up with her hands in the air. She can't and started to fall over. When I grabbed her to prevent the fall,they screamed at me to get away.

Their conduct is an outrage and has nothing to do with security.

Posted By Barry on May 31, 2011, 11:12 AM

The first time that a terrorist activity occurs, these same people will be screaming for the TSA's heads. Suck it up people, security is a fact of life if you want to fly. If it's too insulting to you, find another way to get where you want to go.

Posted By Neil on May 31, 2011, 11:42 AM

as a therapist who works with women who have been sexually abused, I fear that these policies may further open serious emotional wounds. Not to mention confusing children who have been taught to resist stranger touch. This is a bad situation. Needs to be seen from standpoint of the vulnerable, and there are many!

Posted By Annie on May 31, 2011, 12:08 PM

as a therapist who works with women who have been sexually abused, I fear that these policies may further open serious emotional wounds. Not to mention confusing children who have been taught to resist stranger touch. This is a bad situation. Needs to be seen from standpoint of the vulnerable, and there are many!

Posted By Annie on May 31, 2011, 12:09 PM

Remember 911 and tell me there should be no searches and pat-downs. You people fail to realize the amount of people who have been caught/deterred because of the objects/weapons that WERE found. Smarten up!!!! This is for the greater good of ALL. If you don't like it DON'T FLY. Terrorism is very real and the same people COMPLAINING of this will be the same people to sue an airline when something DOES happen. Don't be ignorant.

Posted By Sharona on May 31, 2011, 12:42 PM

Pat downs wouldn't have prevented the 9-11 attacks. And there is so much irony and ignorance in statements made by 'patriots' endorsing the surrender of freedom in effort to protect freedom. When your government becomes an entity that requires no probable cause in order to even physically to molest its citizens, we are no longer the American beacon of hope for the world we aspire to be. Instead we will have become the very thing we profess to be fighting against-a powerless people without freedom to conduct our lives unmolested by a tyrannical, invasive, oppressive corporate government. The government is slowly becoming the terrorist.

For once, I agree with Texas. Americans must not endure illegal searches and humiliation, especially by our own government entities. If we don't resist, and preserve our freedoms, then America is not worth protecting.

Posted By thinkamericans on May 31, 2011, 1:03 PM

I have traveled extensively throughout South and Central America, and pat-downs are (and have been for the past 5 years that I have been traveling there) a normal part of going through security.

I think that the people who are complaining the loudest have not experienced travel in other parts of the world. Personally, I will request pat-downs over scanners on my future flights. I have had 6 scans so far this year, and I am concerned that the accumulation of the scans is going to cause health issues for me in the future. But if it was just to 1 or 2 scans a year, I wouldn't have a problem there either.

Unfortunately, most people in the U.S.A. live in a bubble of presumed safety, and will only accept extra security after a disaster - but that becomes the barn door theory...you know, where you close the barn door after the wolves get in and kill your livestock. Security is inconvenient but necessary. The nay-sayers don't seem to realize that even going through the motions will prevent possible security issues. All we can do is make it more difficult for the people who have intentions of harming us. No one can guarantee 100% success, but if the security measures stop, you can guarantee that there will be another attack.

Posted By Jackie Butts on May 31, 2011, 1:05 PM

Jackie Butts writes: "I think that the people who are complaining the loudest have not experienced travel in other parts of the world."

Boy, do you have the wrong number. I am 53 years old, have traveled all over the world, have been searched -- not groped -- by security all over the world. I've also been frisked by the police. But I have given up flying completely, though it's a personal sacrifice, because my rights -- and the rights of all people -- are more important than my personal desires.

What the TSA is doing isn't "searching" -- it's bullying, harassing, and intimidating. It's abuse. It's molestation. It's the exercise of power for power's sake.

What're you security cheerleaders going to do when someone detonates a bomb in the arrivals or departures concourse, à la Moscow's Domodedovo?? Strip everyone at the entrance to the airport? On the highways leading up to the airport? Every time you leave your house? After all, Can't Be Too Safe! Gotta Be Careful! The Terrorists Are Everywhere!

Live your lives, people, as dignified human beings instead of scared sheeple. You're more likely to be struck by lightning than to be involved in a terrorist attack.

The bogeyman "Terrorist" is now being used just like "Communist" was in the '50s. To enforce compliance. To support fear-based social norms. And to line the pockets of scanner manufacturers like Rapiscan (how appropriate a name) and their pushers (Michael Chertoff, et. al.).

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 1:20 PM

My other two comments apparently got hung up in this site's spam filter. Perhaps the moderator will release them. They contain nothing naughty or not fit for family consumption. There was, however, a URL link attached to my name; perhaps that's the problem.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 1:23 PM

I am for the TSA keep on using the pat-down system, if it takes to be strip searched I would not complain anything to keep us safe in the air. I fly often each year and I have had the TSA to do the pat-down A lot of times I find no problem with it at all. It has allways been done in A professional manner.I respect for the men and women doing their job to keep us safe in the air.

Posted By Gallie on May 31, 2011, 1:28 PM

"if it takes to be strip searched I would not complain anything to keep us safe in the air"

And thus does the subservient mentality reveal itself.

Well, you'll probably get your wish. When Uncle Sam starts sticking his fingers up your a*s, I guess you'll be really happy.

And just because you've had respectful treatment doesn't mean everyone has. Thousands upon thousands of people have been abused, harassed, bullied, and sexually assaulted. I'm a journalist and I've kept up with the TSA and its increasing abuse. I also have three friends who've been sexually assaulted by the TSA, plus know two families who refuse to let their children fly because they don't want them to be molested.

But the fact that I know them personally is irrelevant; their stories are no more important than those of the thousands of other people who've been attacked by this power-hungry, worthless agency. An agency that terrorizes us far more than anybody else could.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 1:36 PM

TSA needs their numbers cut to less than 20,000, their hiring standards raised by 100%, and all of the control freaks and weirdos who have infiltrated their numbers terminated. We have not made a flight since the patdown and pics started.

Posted By Nick P on May 31, 2011, 2:02 PM

For those opposing TSA screenings I hope you enjoy riding a bus. As for me, TSA can scan/pat touch so long as my flight gets me to my destination.

Posted By Bob S on May 31, 2011, 2:22 PM

Yes, Bob, we know -- the slave/authoritarian mentality (two sides of the same coin) is alive and well.

The rallying cry of Americans used to be, "Give me liberty or give me death." Now, it's "Don't inconvenience me."

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 2:30 PM

I would like to hear from Folks on this comment board who feel 'safe' with TSA security who have been patted down in a locked room...just 2 strngers probing your body and you.
YOU will have absolutley no control.
This happened to me after I went thru the body scanner and they found a kleenex in my pocket...yes, it is true...a kleenex.
After my complaint, I was told that the TSA agent did not follow propler procedure...she should have patted my pockets.
Yes, YOU too, can be a victim of an abusive TSA agent and taken into a closed room and bodily probed.

Posted By marlee on May 31, 2011, 2:44 PM

I would like to hear from Folks on this comment board who feel 'safe' with TSA security who have been patted down in a locked room...just 2 strngers probing your body and you.
YOU will have absolutley no control.
This happened to me after I went thru the body scanner and they found a kleenex in my pocket...yes, it is true...a kleenex.
After my complaint, I was told that the TSA agent did not follow propler procedure...she should have patted my pockets.
Yes, YOU too, can be a victim of an abusive TSA agent and taken into a closed room and bodily probed.

Posted By marlee on May 31, 2011, 2:45 PM

Marlee, they'll never answer, because they'd rather stick their heads in the sand. The sentiment is: "As long as it doesn't happen to me!"

Lots of compassion there.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 2:56 PM

Pat downs are performed when a passenger refuses or can't do the body scan. The body scan sees under clothes, so what? Most men and most women are built the same way. The scan reveals nothing new, except for explosives, guns, knives, etc. The world is filled with complainers who complain for the sake of complaining.
I agree the TSA is not effective and scans and pat downs may be a waste of time. If onlyone life is saved, then the effort is worth it.

Posted By lawthomas on May 31, 2011, 3:01 PM

Outlaw them....OUTRAGEOUS searches they are WAY over the BOUNDARIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Posted By pberg on May 31, 2011, 3:03 PM

No, lawthomas, gropes are also performed simply at the whim of TSA agents. And I guess there are still people out there who don't realize that just because you go through the scanner doesn't mean that you won't still be singled out for a grope.

The TSA has absolute power. They can command you to do anything, no matter how dunderheaded, no matter how base and degrading. Why is that no one seems to have a problem understanding the saying "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" for everything else in life, but not for the TSA? Why are TSA agents exempt?

Look up Philip Zimbardo. Look up Stanford Prison Experiment. Look up Stanley Milgram. That's what's going on here.

And pause for the priggish: It's not about showing your bits. I go to nude beaches. I won't go through a strip-search scanner. And I won't allow myself to be groped. It's not about showing one's bits; it's about not aquiescing to being treated like a criminal. It's about conducting one's life as a rational human being instead of a scared herd animal.

You're more likely to drown in your bathtub than you are to be a victim of terrorism. Live your lives, people, or stay home and hide under the bed. Give up your own rights if you want to; don't give up ours as well.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 3:17 PM

ONLY IF YOU'RE WILLING TO BE BLOWNUP BY SOME TEROREST THAT JUST MAY PICK YOUR FLIGHT TO USE!!!GET A LIFE,THIS IS FOR EVERYBODIES SAFETY AS WELL AS YOURS!!

Posted By Neil on May 31, 2011, 3:26 PM

Matbe the airlines could set up flights specifically for those people who don't want to be scanned, patted down or "groped." Let everyone get on board without screening their luggage, too. After all, we don't want to inconvenience potential terrorist bombers either, do we?

I've spent several years in Europe and, believe me, if you don't like being scanned, searched or even profiled, they won't put up with you -- and I won't, either.

Posted By Steve on May 31, 2011, 3:34 PM

Neil,

Oh, what a load of nonsense. The 9/11 victimology in this country is pathetic.

3,000 people killed by terrorism in this country in how many decades of aviation? Yet 43,000 traffic fatalities every year. Why don't you stop driving? Or perhaps you'd feel better if Uncle Sam started scoping and groping you on the highways?

How many of the security cheerleaders here talk on their cellphones while driving? Most? All, probably. That'll get you killed a lot faster than the bogeyman Terrorist will. Oops, there goes your argument that you're concerned about safety.

And why do you all never answer the question about the possibility of attacks elsewhere, not just at airports? Why don't we get searched everywhere, all the time? After all, Gotta Keep Us Safe!

Other people around the world have suffered and continue to suffer much more from terrorism than this country ever has. Yet we've turned our society upside down because of this fear and paranoia.

Oh, well, as the saying goes, in a democracy people get the government they deserve.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 3:36 PM

Matbe the airlines could set up flights specifically for those people who don't want to be scanned, patted down or "groped."

Fine by me. There were no bombs going off before 9/11, or after 9/11. No bombs before the scanners and gropefests were instituted.

Let everyone get on board without screening their luggage, too.

Got news for you: they're not screening your luggage now. While the TSA is busy sticking its hands down your pants, most of the luggage in the hold isn't being screened.

So much for "security."

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 3:39 PM

I would rather die than live like a humiliated dog.

How many terrorists have they caught in all those years? NONE...Which just means they are clearly ineffective.

I was not allowed to carry my baby milk, baby lotion, tooth paste but when I reached the final destination, I realized there was a small scissor in the carry-on baggage that I was not aware of.

TSA list of prohibited items only include bottle water, baby milk, lotion, hair gel, medicine etc etc.

I have seen more and more TSA agents trying to stop us from bring our own bottled water, lotion or coffee than actually check for objects that can cause harm like knife, scissor etc.

About a year ago, Houston businessman Farid Sief accidentally brought his loaded Glock on a flight from Houston’s Bush Intercontinental Airport. The loaded gun, which Seif carries for protection, was tucked away in his laptop case, and should have been clearly visible since he had to take his laptop out of the bag, which was practically empty.

Seif was shocked when he realized halfway through his flight that the gun was still in his bag. He reported it as soon as he landed. Not that we haven’t seen this before with things like six-inch hunting knives or 12-inch razor blades, but aren’t x-ray machines put in place specifically to detect bulky chunks of metal like guns? The scary part is that a TSA spokesperson told ABC news that this isn’t an uncommon lapse of security:

uthorities tell ABC News the incident is not uncommon, but how often it occurs is a closely guarded government secret. Experts say every year since the September 11 attacks, federal agencies have conducted random, covert tests of airport security. A person briefed on the latest tests tells ABC News the failure rate approaches 70 percent at some major airports. Two weeks ago, TSA’s new director said every test gun, bomb part or knife got past screeners at some airports.

Posted By Blackhill on May 31, 2011, 3:44 PM

Blackhill,

Exactly. These lapses are common and have been well reported. But the security cheerleaders don't respond to empirical evidence. They prefer fear-mongering. And they just luv them some security theater!

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 3:50 PM

I travel at least twice a year and I have never received a pat down. I make sure everything is out of my pockets so the alarm will not be set off. I would not object to pat down if that happened and I don't understand why anyone would object to the scanner. My partner has had to have pat down at times and I have not seen anything inappropriate about the pat down to him or others that I have seen. There should at least be an option to have the pat down in private and always by same gender.

Posted By David L on May 31, 2011, 3:51 PM

Firearm related death each year in America is around 30,000. Should they start groping in the streets too???

Posted By Blackhill on May 31, 2011, 3:52 PM

As a resident of Texas I recently went through security and had to have a pat down due to my medically implanted device. The pat down was normal for the most part except for the point where they accidentally goosed me. Definitely took me by suprise. Didn't say anything to the agent since this was probably a one-off occurence. But pat downs have certainly been more aggressive over the past year. Heck, if my wife who followed after me through the line, could tell my eyes "bugged out" during the pat down, something was out of the ordinary. I highly favor scanners over pat downs.

Posted By John on May 31, 2011, 3:57 PM

Boy, do I agree with everything that Lisa Simeone says. As a retired international airline captain, I think that the TSA procedures are a joke. For you people that say "if you don't like it, don't fly", you prove what jerks you are. You are not smart enough to realize that Secretary Napolitano is a typical dumb beauracrat that hasn't got a clue as to what are peoples rights and what is effective in stopping a terrorist at the airport security point. I have flown in and out of Televiv many times over the years and they do it right. The security people look you in the eyes and ask some intersting questions. If they don't like your response, they will interrogate you further. If they still don't like your responses and body language, they don't let you on their airplane ! My wife was recently gropped and and touched by a woman TSA agent in Boston. It took all of my wifes control not to smack the woman in the face. She is smart enough to know that she probably would have been arrested for assault. But, the TSA agent is immune from being arrested for assaulting my wife ! Any one who just lets the TSA do what they want without thinking "this is stupid" and unconstitutional needs a brain transplant.

Posted By Dick the pilot on May 31, 2011, 4:01 PM

I say hire the Israelis to conduct airport security. They figured out how to keep flights secure a long time ago.

Posted By Larry Borden on May 31, 2011, 4:07 PM

Sharonna, Annie, Steve, Bob, and Neil need to get their heads out of their butts.

Don't "remember 911" to me! I lost a sister and brother-in-law to Libyan terrorists on Pan Am 103, and yet, I will never, EVER, support government proposals to harass, intimidate, or grope me.

Have a good look the next time you go through security. Those "security" people are the ones who barely graduated from High School. Do you have ANY idea how many times items have gone through the scanners that were mistakenly left in luggage from a previous trip? Those fools can't see squat when it's right there in their face! And you foolishly think you're safe?!

Maybe I feel that the odds are on my side when I fly overseas, but it wouldn't matter if they weren't. We don't need Big Brother - but, if it doesn't bother you, you're welcome to him.

Posted By Martha on May 31, 2011, 4:08 PM

One caveat re Israeli security: yes, they've stopped terrorist attacks on planes, but they've accepted the risk of attacks elsewhere in the country -- marketplaces, buses. So it's not like they have a panacea. And just so we're all on the same page: Isreali security relies heavily on ethnic and racial profiling. I understand the need for responsible behavioral profiling -- none of which the TSA is capable of doing -- but let's not kid ourselves that certain people get yanked out of line in Israel for being the "wrong" type.

As for actual security experts and actual law enforcement experts, talk to them sometime -- they despise the TSA even more than I do (if that's possible). Cops, FBI agents -- they're not allowed to do to suspects what the TSA does to us. Yet they have to submit to the abusive, unConstitutional behavior by the TSA.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 4:12 PM

Bravo and kudos to all of Lisa Simeone's comments. It's nice to know that not all Americans are sheeple. I witnessed an elderly lady in a wheelchair, wearing leg braces a few people before us on the "security line". She was forced to remove her braces. She could not stand. This 'absolute necessity" on an old woman was absolutely ludicrous.

And before we ask, "where has common sense gone?", let us all realize that all of this TSA nonsense has nothing to do with security, but to conditioning EVERYONE to the emerging neo-Fascist state that our once proud democracy and republic has become. You are all being conditioned into accepting absolute government control over your lives.

Better start strenuously objecting to this before it's too late. Of course once it is too late is when most folks start to complain.

Posted By Dr.Bill on May 31, 2011, 4:16 PM

I am really tired of ALWAYS being completely searched. I have 2 hip replacements! knee and hip replacements are not uncommon, and will become even more so as the population ages! I travel frequently, and this is getting really invasive. I think they need to come up with a better plan. I have no objection to the xray machines, although they certainly do reveal an eyeful. Why not have a male and female xray, and feed everyone through quickly?

Posted By Lisa W on May 31, 2011, 4:28 PM

There should at least be an option to have the pat down in private and always by same gender.
Posted By David L on May 31, 2011, 3:51 PM

David, there is theoretically that option -- it's stated on the TSA's own website. But as thousands of people can attest, gropes aren't necessarily done by people of the same sex. My friend Sommer Gentry -- who has posted prolifically on all sorts of sites using her real name -- has been groped many times by male TSA agents. She also had a wand shoved up into her vagina by a female TSA goon.

As for going into a private room -- scary. Then you are completely at their mercy. They can -- and do -- do anything they want. I would post links here, but every time I tried earlier in this thread, my comment got booted to the spam filter.

There was an actual coordinated ring of male TSOs at Reagan National last year who were hauling women off to a private staircase, no less, and making them strip. This was reported in the Washington DC area, have no idea if it got national play. Christopher Elliott, who writes for WaPo and NatGeo, also has a travel blog and has written about passengers who were sexually assaulted in private rooms.

If the TSA's searches are so innocuous and benign, why can't they be performed in public anyway?

But I say witnesses are essential. You need witnesses. You want witnesses.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 4:30 PM

I have flown internationally extensively and I have to agree there is a difference between TSA pat-downs and other agencies. I'm not sure if it is training, culture, or attitude but the agencies in other airports are not nearly as offensive and humiliating.

Does anyone know how Israel handles security at the airport? They don't seem to have many problems these days with hijacking and security breeches. Maybe we should take a page out of their book.

Posted By Kim on May 31, 2011, 6:12 PM

Kim, look up-thread. We talked about Isreali security.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 6:21 PM

I have traveled many places in this world especially international and have never been groped or patted down like in the USA.....I recently have been flying with Vision Airlines[great company]and had the worst experience in Fort Walton Beach Florida......sad to say these TSA employees were so arrogant and rude..they were on an extreme power trip....I watched them as they excerted their AUTHORITY over many people...argueing with people in a most threating manner.....it was absurd!!...TSA is totally out of control especially when it comes to scaring little children....TSA is the Gestapo of the airline industry.....What new measures will be next?

Posted By S.L Taylor on May 31, 2011, 6:46 PM

I was not only subjected to imaging,but also to groping. I was told that I moved too fast after the buzzer sounded that I thought indicated the end of the imaging session. Because of my movement, an agent who was laughing, told me I was to be subjected to a pat down. Another agent came over and proceeded to grope me. When I moved slightly because she was going up my leg, she shouted at me that she would have to start again. At this point, she decided to tell me she would be going up my legs and touching my breasts, which she hadn't bothered to mention before. Then, she yelled at me, asking me if I wanted to be searched in private. I answered yes, because I didn't want to be humiliated in front of my students, who were on a college trip with me. She was more incensed. We went into a "private" room, but my students could hear what was said. It was one of the most embarrassing and invasive situations I have had in my life. I wrote TSA a letter complaining and I received a form letter immediately, although they say that complaints go to a specialist. Right. I feel that they care.

I had the distinction of being imaged and felt up. Usually you get to choose, but I hit the jackpot. I hope that all Americans feel safer now. Unfortunately, I don't.

Posted By colleen on May 31, 2011, 7:52 PM

Dr. Bill- you say, "let us all realize that all of this TSA nonsense has nothing to do with security, but to conditioning EVERYONE to the emerging neo-Fascist state that our once proud democracy and republic has become. You are all being conditioned into accepting absolute government control over your lives.

Oh please- while the TSA is annoying, and I question their effectiveness, and do believe many of their rules and procedures are designed to "comfort" people with a sense of security, the idea that we are being conditioned is rediculous and embarrasing.

Posted By Patrick Smith on May 31, 2011, 9:13 PM

No, the idea that we are being conditioned isn't ridiculous and embarrassing; it's obvious.

I repeat: Philip Zimbardo. Stanley Milgram. Solomon Asch. Stanford Prison Experiment. Milgram Experiment. Asch Paradigm.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 9:30 PM

To all of the negative commentors. Are all of you that ignorant and judgemental??? In any large organization with tens of thousands of employees that conduct millions of searches every year there are going to be a few negative experiences. Do not paint an entire organization bad, or call them child molesters. Guess where terrorists will hide items of destruction if the TSA stops searching in the groin area. I believe that there was a young lady in Russia who tried to blow up a plane with a fake stomach or something of that nature. Do you think that possibly, maybe some female terrorist might use fake breasts to smuggle an explosive on a plane? If we stop searching the breast area that is the area that will be used. And FYI the Secret Service as of a few years ago, did not even use same sex searchers as the TSA does. Do not go around painting an organization as "child molesters" simply because you are a bitter and angry person who needs someone to hate to have some semblance of a life. And comparing an organization like the TSA to the Gestapo of all things is insulting to the victims of Germany's insanity during the Second World War. Obviously there has to be constraints on the behavior of security organizations, but the searches still have to happen. Everyone is different so some people are going to be more offended, by being searched, but colleen was clearly having a bad day when she was searched as was possibly the TSA agent. WHAT A SHOCKER. Both of them were human beings who are not perfect. If you move during a search, that is a possible maneuver to shift an item out of a search area and there are people with sufficient body control out there who could do that. That is why the search was started over. I also have to state that is very, very, very unlikely that a female was groped "many times" by male TSA agents. It just does not happen, except under very rare circumstances when a female is not available.
In all of these discussions I have not seen one person offer any solutions only angry inaccurate ranting. No kudos to Lisa Simeone,with what seems like more inaccurate information. When FBI agents fly on official business they do not have to submit to searches by the TSA. If they are flying as regular citizens off duty, then they do. I seriously doubt if your blanket statement that "actual security experts and actual law enforcement experts" hating the TSA, some might, some might be neutral, and some might like them, i.e. differences of opinion. One has to wonder how many of those experts she interviewed before making a blanket statement like that. 10,100, 1000, how many?? Kudos do go to Lisa
W. who objected to the search like most people, but offered a change in procedure as a possible solution to the problem. There is someone who was thinking. One last comment, NO ONE paid me to say any of this, it all came my opinions and experience working with airport security in the past. ( In the interests of full disclosure I am a former TSA officer( not a "groper" or any other deragatory term.)

Posted By Richard Decker on May 31, 2011, 9:52 PM

My daughter will not be flying as I refuse to stand by passively should a government employee "randomly decide" to touch her. Nor will I allow her to go through back-scatter x-ray machines with no protection for areas of the body susceptible to radiation (as well as lacking privacy). My daughter is not a terrorist threat (and neither am I) - let's use some of the taxpayer money to improve computer background checks at security or see racial profiling implemented more thoroughly.

I agree with previous posts regarding a growing lack of common sense in our society and the scary reality of people being willing to give up constitutional rights in the name of perceived "safety". There is nowhere that I want to travel to badly enough to give those up.

If enough people refused to fly because of this, the commercial airlines would suffer a lack of revenue and would pressure our federal government to change its practices. As long as people continue to go along with it - nothing will change.

Posted By Jessica A. on May 31, 2011, 10:03 PM

Ah, yes, the usual "few bad apples" excuse.

I call bullsh*t. I have been compiling stories of TSA abuse for 18 months. The document on my computer stands at 47 pages -- and that's just headlines and links, not complete text. The ACLU has collected thousands of stories. So has EPIC. So have other journalists besides me, such as Christopher Elliott, Daniel Rubin, Jennifer Abel, Amy Alkon, Deborah Newell Tornello. And obviously, these are only the stories that have gotten a modicum of publicity. Who knows how many other instances of abuse there are that never get reported?? That are told only to family and friends?

You are wrong that these accounts are false, exaggerated, or whatever other dismissive term you want to throw at them.

It's stunning that people who have never personally experienced an assault dare to tell others who have that it's no big deal. Sommer Gentry is a Professor of Mathematics at the U.S. Naval Academy. Google her. She has posted her experience at dozens of websites.

The organized ring of strip-searches at Reagan National Airport that I referred to above was, I repeat, widely reported in the DC area. You don't want to believe it, just as you don't want to believe the thousands of other accounts of abuse? Fine. Doesn't change the facts.

And good for you that you never groped anybody. You behaved like a dignified human being. Instead of a thug.

What part of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" don't you understand?

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 10:09 PM

Jessica writes: If enough people refused to fly because of this, the commercial airlines would suffer a lack of revenue and would pressure our federal government to change its practices. As long as people continue to go along with it - nothing will change.

I agree. Which is why I stopped flying last year, even though it's a big sacrifice for me as I love travel more than I can say. Luckily, I've done a lot of it in my life. But human dignity and OUR rights are more important than my personal desires.

Oh, and Richard Decker and other security cheerleaders and fear-mongers, in answer to your question about a more reasonable, sensible approach? As I, and others, have stated umpteen times: Intelligence. Police Work. The same things used to fight other crimes. Responsible intelligence, responsible police work, responsible behavioral profiling (not the laughable BDOs and SPOT and FAST programs the TSA now uses, which are simply further ways to bully and harass innocent citizens).

No passengers smuggled bombs onto planes before 9/11, on 9/11, or after 9/11. Including before these insane molestation procedures were put into place. How is it that you weren't blown out of the sky when you weren't being scanned or groped then? Why aren't you afraid of being blown up in the arrivals or departures concourse? In the airport parking garage? At a train station?

Live your life. You face a hundred risks more dangerous than "The Terrorists!" every day. Yet, presumably, you still get up in the morning and go about your business. If you want to cower and give up your rights because you're afraid The Terrorists are hiding around every corner, fine; but don't give up ours as well.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on May 31, 2011, 10:17 PM

some security yes, groping out of line....any crimes done by TSA employees should be fed. crimes

Posted By bill on June 1, 2011, 12:16 AM

TSA Harasses Two Texas Wounded Veterans at Airport with War Shrapnel in their Bodies
Uploaded on May 28, 2011
By David Bellow

. . . One of the wounded warriors, a friend of mine who personally told me what happened, has bullet fragments in his leg. The other has shrapnel in his face.

The TSA agents cornered them and bombarded them with repeated questions like, “What are you hiding in your face?” The agents did not give them time to explain anything and went straight into accusing them of “hiding” something in their bodies. Yeah, they are hiding something alright. They have metal in their bodies from war! My friend told me that one TSA agent came up to him and asked what he was hiding in his leg, but before my friend could answer he said that the TSA agent grabbed him, without notice, right in the crotch area as if trying to find something hidden. My friend has served many tours of duty, and I believe him when he tells me that it took everything in him not to react defensively when this agent grabbed his crotch without even letting him know he was going to be pat searched.

From Field and Stream. You'll have to Google the article, since this Newsweek Budget Travel site won't allow links. If you post a link, your comment gets sent to the spam folder.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on June 1, 2011, 6:55 AM

My husband was flying home from Boise this weekend. They unzipped his pants and proceeded to "search" his groin area, inside his clothes. This is simply not acceptable! But if you complain, you run the risk of not getting on to your flight. We don't object to security. In fact, we think it's a good idea! But TSA groping is not security, it's abuse of power.

Posted By Jill Harvey on June 1, 2011, 7:49 AM

Jill, thank you for posting using your full name. I'll add your story to my compilation of thousands of others.

Philip Zimbardo and Stanley Milgram amply demonstrated the human tendency to abuse power in their famous experiments 40 years ago. The TSA's abusive behavior was predictable. Anyone who thinks this isn't what's going on is in denial. Denial, unfortunately, is a powerful force. Just look at all the comments here from people saying "I don't believe it."

Posted By Lisa Simeone on June 1, 2011, 8:12 AM

Dear feds,
Don't Mess with Texas!

Posted By Barry Dickens on June 1, 2011, 8:25 AM

Richard Decker also cast aspersions on the claim that law enforcement officers despise the TSA. On Thursday, April 7th, I attended a five-person panel discussion at the University of the District of Columbia sponsored by the UDC Law School. There were two FBI agents there -- James Wedick, on the panel, and his wife in the audience. I talked to both of them.

Not only did they agree with me about TSA overreach and abuse, but, ironically, they themselves were the recipients of that abuse on their very flight out from California. Mrs. Wedick, an active FBI agent, was hauled aside because her laminated FBI ID badge was deemed to have "a sharp edge." She was repeatedly questioned about the "dangerous" item she was carrying, and her bags and body were searched. She said her husband kept giving her meaningful looks urging her to keep cool because she was so angry at this display of stupidity.

You can't make this stuff up.

But then anyone who reads knows that the Wedicks' experience is common and that not only FBI agents but cops also hold the TSA in contempt.

As for "actual security experts" to whom I referred above-thread, to name a few: U.S. security expert Bruce Schneier; Israeli security expert, in charge of Ben Gurion airport, Rafi Sela; MP Ben Wallace of Great Britain; Stephen M. Lord of the GAO; former Secret Service official Richard Roth. These men, unlike the hired guns paid by Rapiscan and Homeland Security, have been speaking out relentlessly about the sham security of the TSA.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on June 1, 2011, 12:49 PM

Patdowns are done in FRONT of other passengers which is an invasion of privacy. I have a total knee replacement and my MD gave me a card verifing this to show to the TSA. However, they ignore the card, refuse to let me go through the X-ray (always saying "it is down")and so a complete pat down (not just of my knee). Why not verify the metal in my knee with a hand-held metal scanner then just pat the knee area to make sure there is nothing else metal there.

Come on folks, use some common sense.

Posted By Susan Patton on June 1, 2011, 4:10 PM

If you don't want to be scanned and you don't want to go through a patdown then don't fly. I don't want you on my plane. There is little doubt that a TSA agent will from time to time want to show you who is boss but in general it is focused at those who want to argue about the law or its intent. Most countries you are screened and patted. Get over it.

Posted By Mike on June 1, 2011, 5:33 PM

Mike -- another subservient mentality speaks.

I guess you won't be happy until Uncle Sam is sticking his fingers up your a*s not only at the airport, but on trains, buses, and subways, too. And how about on the highways just for good measure?

Not only don't you get it, you actually defend the TSA's abuse of power: "will want to show who's boss."

But you're wrong. The TSA isn't the boss. We are. They serve us, not the other way around.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on June 1, 2011, 5:38 PM

Heil Hitler!

Just goes to show: you don't hafta be Jewish to be thrown in the ovens.
And this in America!

GOD bless Texas for taking a stand!
The rest of the country ought to do the same.
They can't refuse to fly out of the whole US!!!!!!!!!

Posted By Joy from Brooklyn on June 1, 2011, 9:04 PM

Heil Hitler!

Just goes to show: you don't hafta be Jewish to be thrown in the ovens.
And this in America!

GOD bless Texas for taking a stand!
The rest of the country ought to do the same.
They can't refuse to fly out of the whole US!!!!!!!!!

Posted By Joy from Brooklyn on June 1, 2011, 9:04 PM

As always those who have something to hide yell the loudest.

Posted By Mike on June 1, 2011, 9:10 PM

"If you don't want to be scanned and you don't want to go through a patdown then don't fly. I don't want you on my plane."

Mike, if you don't want to uphold the Constitution and you don't hold our Bill of Rights dear then renounce your citizenship. I don't want you living in my country.

Posted By Ann on June 3, 2011, 4:05 PM

"If you don't want to be scanned and you don't want to go through a patdown then don't fly. I don't want you on my plane."

Mike, if you don't want to uphold the Constitution and you don't hold our Bill of Rights dear, then renounce your citizenship. I don't want you living in my country.

Posted By Ann on June 3, 2011, 4:09 PM

I just read about the new law regarding TSA patdowns that passed in Texas. I have just one word to describe the new law. OUTRAGEOUS!! Who do these state legislators think they are?? Since when do state governments have the right to set policy for Federal agencies? I have absolutely no problem with having a patdown if it will help to ensure that everyone has a safe flight from point A to point B. After all, it is a Federal responsibility to provide airport security, not a state responsibility. If the TSA feels that in order to protect US citizens it is sometimes necessary to conduct a patdown, then I'm all for it. I can see how some travelers can see the patdown as invasive. However, let's look at the big picture here. I feel a lot more secure knowing that the TSA is using all available tools to protect me than I would if they had their hands tied behind their back. I trust the TSA agents to do what they deem is necessary to provide ample security to travelers. I am a frequent flyer and more often than not I find the TSA agents to be professional and courteous. If you don't want to abide by the Federal security guidelines that have been established for U.S. airports, then don't fly. Remember that not only Texas residents fly in and out of Texas airports. Millions of other people who fly into Texas would be impacted by this law. Their security would be compromised by this law. If this new law is upheld, I will definitely find alternate routes to reach my future travel destinations if my itinerary involves flying into a Texas airport. I hope the courts will quickly throw out this joke of a law before the ink has time to dry!

Posted By Keith on June 3, 2011, 8:49 PM

"The authorities said the changes, the monitoring, banning and regulations, were for the greater good. But good, isn't the same as right"

Posted By Jessica on June 4, 2011, 1:50 AM

Keith:

May the chains of slavery settle lightly over your shoulders. I wouldn't want you in Texas, wimp!

Posted By Phil Dru on June 4, 2011, 6:09 AM

I can see that Kool-Aid is still popular here. Keith has drunk it, along with millions of others across the country. But not all of us have. Some of us can tell the difference between nutrition and garbage.

Posted By Lisa Simeone on June 5, 2011, 12:38 PM

Should TSA airport patdowns be outlawed? Hell yes! In fact, I thought unwanted and unwelcome sexual contact forced upon a victim was already a crime. Maybe we should just enforce the laws we already have, starting with the 4th Amendment. I keep wondering what on earth is wrong with you people who actually defend child molestation and forcing children to pose for nude pictures that men get to enjoy in private pornobooths so you can't see their reactions. Touching genitalia through clothing is a sexual act. Strangers forcing you to accept genital massage is a sexual assault. The euphemism of "patdown" can not cover the hideousness of the crime. TSA screeners take money to sexually assault innocent people. Sexual touching at airports is not about safety - there is nothing, nothing safe about strangers putting their hands down a little girl's pants. Shouldn't this be a no-brainer? People seriously don't care to protect themselves and their kids from sexual predators?

Posted By Marybeth on June 8, 2011, 9:16 AM

No amount of safety, no measure of security, NO NUMBER OF LIVES SAVED is worth sacrificing the founding principles of our nation.

This is (ostensibly still) the land of the free, not the land of the safe. Freedom means risk and 235 years ago, some people decided that given the choice between living safe lives of submission to authority, or taking their lives in their hands and being free, they would rather have liberty at the expense of personal risk.

Yes, if TSA stops doing what it is doing, planes may be blown up. Maybe we'll have another 9/11. Maybe we'll have 911 more 9/11s. It will be sad, people will be hurting and mourning. But that is the price we pay for liberty. When people say "freedom isn't free," that's where that slogan comes from. When Thomas Jefferson said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants," it was not intended as some sort of anarchist screed. He was saying that sometimes, in order for there to be freedom for all, good people must stand against oppressors and, sometimes, sacrifice themselves in order to do so.

And for godsakes, nobody is even asking any American patriot to fall on their sword. What we're talking about is the people standing up and saying "Enough is enough" to the TSA. Saying "If we have to choose between being less safe in the air and enduring the wholesale sexual assault that you neander-thugs perpetrate against us every day at terminals across the nation, then we'll keep our 4th-Amendment rights and take our chances. Now get the hell out of our airports."

Anyone who values safety over liberty is not espousing American principles and, in point of fact, this can be confirmed via the words of Benjamin Franklin himself. It's been quoted a thousand times before but it rings absolutely true each and every last time. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

America. Land of the free. Not "Land of the free, except in airports or when we're really really scared, void where prohibited, some restrictions may apply."

Posted By CelticWhisper on June 8, 2011, 12:45 PM

BRING EM! If you feeling around me helps make thousands safe. Do it. If you are that insecure of your own "space" you need to go hide in a bubble and stay there.

Try clearing security in Tel Aviv. Now THAT is strict. But, do they complain? No. They have the worlds best security, and it shows. God forbid we have to get a quick little rub a dub for some security, WE as American's are paranoid over.

it's not the 60's or the 70's. GET OVER IT.

Posted By S.R on June 10, 2011, 9:59 AM

So wait a minute here. You're saying that freedom from unreasonable warrantless searches only applied in the '60s and '70s? You're saying that just because some people flew some planes into some buildings 10 years ago, now we all have to think safety is more important than freedom?

What if that's how they felt during the Revolutionary War? "Well, Martha, I'd go and fight the British but it's just so UNSAFE! Better to just pay our taxes to the crown and stay nice and secure instead."

This country has never been about safety. Ever. No matter how many people are involved. Whether it keeps one safe or whether it keeps thousands safe or whether it keeps tens of millions safe. Doesn't matter, freedom is more important than safety, all the time, every time.

This has nothing to do with "bubbles of personal space." This has to do with flagrant violations of our Constitutional rights in the name of nanny-state nonsense. The four most dangerous words in the English language are "for your own good." More harm has been done in the guise of protecting the victim than for any other purpose in history.

So, as I said before, we'll keep our liberty and take our chances. Yes, we will be UNSAFE. But I'd rather be unsafe and free than secure and subjugated.

Posted By CelticWhisper on June 10, 2011, 10:40 AM

I am a disabled woman who has a metal implant and ALWAYS gets patted down unless I am lucky enough to stumble on a full body scanner. It is interesting to me that no one cared too much when only grandma, grandpa, and the disabled were the ones being searched (probably the LEAST likely to be terrorists) but now that the general public is somemetimes pulled in for the same thing it is a media circus and attractive 20 somethings get mega attention by crying about how VIOLATED they feel and hysterical mommas complain that their 6 month old is GROPED and probably no doubt will need counseling in later life to overcome this horrendous infant violation when someone felt their diaper.
I agree that it is somewhat invasive and I certainly don't enjoy it but I grit my teeth and endure and try to be polite because while we are protected from unnecessary search we do not have the constitutional right to fly and it is still mostly more convenient than driving a lot of places. So far as the body scanners are concerned if someone is so perverted they are getting off on looking at shadows of people going through scanners they would be the ones who are sad....not me! I would be out of there...in about 30 seconds compared to the long waits in the pat down line. I did it in Canada. It was a piece of cake. Somehow I have trouble believing that whoever is on the other end haveing to scan hundreds of passing "shadows" has the time or inclination to think of much besides when their next break is. If you don't like it you have the right to travel by another route.

I do think that the airline staff doing these searches sometimes need more sensitivity training
and sometimes an antirudeness seminar. I also believe that a little common sense could prevail without their actually doing profiling. While they can't automatically waive through every disabled and elderly person with a pacemaker or wheelchair they also don't need to check everyone of them in a line that NEVER has adequate staff to do the job in a timely manner.
(If they automatically exempted us than a potential terrorist need only grab a wheelchair and falsify a card claiming an implant.) Those who are from countries more likely to be an enemy can be given a bit closer scruting. There is a difference between using common sense to concentrate on those who come from say....Yemen.. and the bent over backward political correctness that has us searching babies diapers in the first place!

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